Curse

creelie · Nov 03, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

As party members, I'd have to say support monks are the most dependent. Of course, with the right build they can solo just about anything, but when they're set up to support other party members they obviously require other party members to take care of offense.

I've also known a lot of tanks who required considerable hand-holding.

Str0b0 · Nov 03, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Monks

Sin and Ranger being the least (Dexterity = win)

Monks for sure. they are always bringing secondary skills wither form warrior for defense, or mesmer for e management. I do disagree with the last part of your post. I know it's off topic but the least dependent by far are dervishes.

obastable · Nov 03, 2007, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Direct healing skills are less effective because they are largely one-dimensional. You target, you heal. Most protection skills however scale in value with how they are used- a rof can stop 140 damage for 5 energy when timed well, a spirit bond on a spike can give immense return healing.

Protection, Divine, or Smite are no more or less "one-dimensional" than Healing. There are monk spells beyond the protection skillset that remove hexes, conditions, reduce damage, etc... If you max DF & your chosen skillset then no matter what you do you're always healing, albeit not always for large amounts. You can easily run a smite build and be an effective healer. I finished EoTN as such with H/H in a few short hours without effort.

Snow Bunny, I understand that Aegis is a party-wide 50% block rate, but it doesn't block much beyond melee dmg. I do not primarily play a heal monk in PvE, though I do indulge in it from time to time. I much prefer smiting, and I find protection to be useful for not much aside from solo farming.

Certainly this arguement may be off-topic, but I can't fathom how so many people nominate Monks as being the most reliant on a secondary when I've not once had the need to do so in any PvE situation and it has been my primary class for over 3000 hours of play. I am truly baffled.

Snow Bunny · Nov 04, 2007, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by obastable

Snow Bunny, I understand that Aegis is a party-wide 50% block rate, but it doesn't block much beyond melee dmg. I do not primarily play a heal monk in PvE, though I do indulge in it from time to time. I much prefer smiting, and I find protection to be useful for not much aside from solo farming.

Protection, not useful?

Sweet jesus. I have nothing to say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obastable

I can't fathom how so many people nominate Monks as being the most reliant on a secondary when I've not once had the need to do so in any PvE situation and it has been my primary class for over 3000 hours of play.

That's because you're playing a pve smiter. Which means.....you probably don't know much about actual monking.

Avarre · Nov 04, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

Keeping all 8 of my skills in primary profession has worked for me very well over the time I've played GW. It wasn't the attitude I started with, it was something I adopted as I learned the game more and started noticing what was working and what was failing in my efforts to get through. And for me, mixing it up led to less effective results more often than not. I reserve it for the exception, not the rule.

Pure monk when played well can be very effective in both PvE and PvP. You lose your secondary utility skill (mobility/defense/energy) but in theory you gain from having an additional monk skill which can be used to save more energy through efficient use (ie: another small prot).

No class in the game needs a secondary technically, the classes (in the case of PvP) typically use 1-2 secondary skills though that are superior to class skills for a specific role, or fill a gap that their class cannot (mend touch on rangers in the former, rend touch on warriors for the latter).

ensoriki · Nov 04, 2007, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Least dependent

Sin,Rit,Dervish/Ranger (you decide I think ranger)

Most

Monk,Warrior Ele

Str0b0 you would think its dervish but not exactly >.>

Sin and Dervish have the same thing

Damage reduction, their own potent damage, condition removal, speed buffs >.> What other 1 can do the othre can do really (except straight out heal in the sin's case)

I say Dervish rely's more due to thing such as D/W and D/mo where as the sin can use his mobility as a reason for why its just A/*
A sin also can just go Feigned and Dark escape >.>

Dervish's have to choose between Earth and Wind (both good for healing really) So going /mo can be umm easier on the attributes >.> since its good ol fashion healing.

Now im done talking out my ass >.>

Faer · Nov 04, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by obastable

I finished EoTN as such with H/H in a few short hours without effort.

GW PvE doesn't take much effort in general.

Burst Cancel · Nov 04, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Pure monk is fine. And I don't mean that in a, "I caen beatz PvE!!!11" way.

Dependency is always going to come down to build, so the only way you could really make a rationale argument for how dependent one profession is compared to another is along the lines of, "most of the builds for X profession require a secondary". There are (AFAIK) excellent builds for all professions that don't require a secondary at all.

As an aside, it's interesting how people were talking about three different things in this thread: which profession was most dependent on other professions, which profession other professions were most dependent on, and which profession most needed a secondary.

Magikarp · Nov 04, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

every class can be dependant just fine, but using a secondary simply opens new horizons to more broad play usage. monks with energy management, warriors able to pump out condition removal, or sins breaking hexes, its all how you want to play.

a lot of people say warrior is one of the top picks, but as a warrior enthusiast.. i say that i could easy play W/blank and complete anything in the game as easy as anything else. monks seem to do best with energy skills (duh) so if you want to count that, sure, i guess that makes sense, but what about all the other stuff out there. yeah, a monk in HA better have channeling, or in TA GolE, but what about the paragon with expel, or with infuse, or the derv with sin steps or dis dagger? the ranger with mending touch, the mesmer with FC .. anything.. the ele with heal party or extinguish, the necro with shield bash or empathy, the rit with prot spirit or spirit bond, and the list goes on and on.

depends on where you are, and what you're doing. your secondary optimizes your play style dependant on local. just my opinion.

dies like fish · Nov 04, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Monks don't need energy management skills if they aren't retarded

Mesmers are the most dependant profession, only because they need a fast casting hard res.

Tender Wolf · Nov 04, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I've always used monk as a secondary because it gives good extra healing, plus ways to res people without waiting on a morale boost. And if you're the last one alive, Rebirth is great even if it does take up all your energy.

For monk primary, I've seen many people have mesmer as secondary. I'm honestly not sure why, but I heard it's something about getting energy. Anyway, I use it because then I can remove hexes with both monk and mesmer skills. Even though I mostly smite as a monk. hehe

freaky naughty · Nov 05, 2007, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

I would say mesmer, they have little or no ability to do anything if there isnt anything to act on, this is often a pain.

Give me some opposition however and I will make pate of them.

Would love to find a farming build for a mesmer anyone know of one ?

You can't be serious right? There are like five different ways to solo UW with a mesmer. As for dependence their second profession usually doesn't help them unless they try doing something entirely different than their purpose (fast casting nuker).

Fitz Rinley · Nov 05, 2007, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Of the core classes, I would say Mesmer.

Mesmers are great interupters, if the one they are interupting doesn't either:
A) have too many budies,
B) have no need for skills to kill you.

I would never try to solo a mesmer on a straight mesmer build like I would my Ele or Derv. Well, at level 20 I might let her go solo in the Wall mission out of Ascalon, lol.

Taki · Nov 06, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Ugh.

No class is dependent on any other, but if you want to stop talking about getting by in pve in all your ignorant glory and start maximizing the potential of your role, then you'll need to utilize some of the billion skills of other professions.

With that goal and from my experience, I'd have to go with monk as most dependent and ranger or mesmer as least. A pure monk bar just isn't as effective as a proper m/x bar and can't withstand the same pounding. A mesmer's role is usually to disrupt the enemy's strategy and create openings for their team. You don't need any skills outside the class to do that effectively but doing so can make you more of a threat to a greater range of situations. Rangers are like all-purpose cleaners.

Dervishes would get runner up as least dependent IMO since with tree form and wind prayers you have condition removal, hex removal, a splice of healing, and enchant removal if you choose. Problem arises when tree form runs out.

mrmango · Nov 06, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Necromancer or ele. Rit comes in close 2nd/3rd.